What To Know<\/h3>\n\n\n- The\u00a0NCIS<\/em> Season 23 finale ended on a major cliffhanger.<\/li>\n
- Showrunner Steven D. Binder breaks that down, discusses the Knight-Torres-Palmer situation, and more.<\/li>\n<\/ul><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n
Hold on, is\u00a0NCIS<\/a><\/em> about to kill off another major character while everyone\u2019s still mourning the loss of Director Vance<\/a> (Rocky Carroll<\/a>)? The Season 23 finale ends with a moment that leaves one of the team\u2019s fate uncertain. TV Insider spoke with showrunner Steven D. Binder<\/a> about that, the major return in the episode, and more. Warning: Spoilers for the\u00a0NCIS<\/em> Season 23 finale ahead!<\/strong><\/p>\nThe team works with Kayla Vance (Naomi Grace<\/a>) after a bombing in an alley links back to one in a caf\u00e9 from a year earlier. And in doing so, we get flashbacks to when she spoke with her father about her concerns about the first one (she\u2019d been right outside) as well as the side work she started doing away from NCIS about it. She couldn\u2019t do both, he\u2019d told her \u2026 and what she didn\u2019t know, until near the end of the finale in the present day, was he\u2019d left her an envelope to allow her to make the call herself about which she\u2019d choose.<\/p>\nMeanwhile, the thorn in everyone\u2019s side, LaRoche (Seamus Dever<\/a>), returns and investigates Kayla for the money used to fund her side project\u00a0and<\/em> accuses Vance of possibly being dirty. Parker (Gary Cole<\/a>) does convince him to drop that, but LaRoche says his job is to restore confidence in the agency by publicly clearing Vance\u2019s name of any wrongdoing \u2026 and he seems to have designs on the director\u2019s chair. Uh-oh!<\/p>\nBut the real shocker comes in the final scene. McGee\u2019s teen son Mateo (Patrick Keleher<\/a>) tours NCIS but seemingly decides the cyber internship (and NCIS) isn\u2019t for him \u2026 only for Palmer (Brian Dietzen<\/a>) to note to Torres (Wilmer Valderrama<\/a>) that he apparently used a workstation to fill out an application. When Torres looks into it, he can\u2019t find an application. Torres confronts Mateo in an alley, and the teen insists he drop it, revealing he\u2019s armed. \u201cThey could be watching,\u201d he says. The finale ends with a gunshot ringing out, but it\u2019s unclear who fired.<\/p>\nShowrunner Steven D. Binder breaks down the Season 23 finale and rules out one outcome of that cliffhanger when the series returns in the fall.<\/p>\n
Why have it be Torres who become suspicious of Mateo?<\/strong><\/p>\nSteven D. Binder:<\/strong> I think that will become a little more clear when you see where the story goes, but in terms of that\u2019s working backwards to a conclusion, but I think it\u2019s, who do we have on the table? It\u2019s going to be one of the three people that McGee works directly with. It\u2019s going to be Knight [Katrina Law<\/a>], Torres, or Parker. And it just seemed like he\u2019d be watching his buddy a little more closely maybe than some of the other characters. They each have some other things going on, especially given the penultimate episode<\/a>. Parker\u2019s got some things on his mind perhaps. And he\u2019s just the one who\u2019s more contemporary to being a father of roughly the same age as McGee. So I think he\u2019s just watching a little more closely. Also, he\u2019s one of the more suspicious guys. He was undercover. It would be in his nature to look sideways at anybody, including family.<\/p>\nThere\u2019s one gunshot, but we don\u2019t know who took it. Can you confirm if someone\u2019s dead or injured or if someone was hit?<\/strong><\/p>\nSomeone was hit. I can confirm that. I sort of had my fill this season, all of us, of killing people. So I can rule that out. And also, there\u2019s not a lot of fun there. When someone\u2019s dead, they\u2019re dead. It\u2019s much more interesting \u2014 I\u2019ll think back to when Gibbs shot McGee. It\u2019s much more fun when someone\u2019s alive and been shot than when they\u2019re dead. And by fun, I mean, interesting.<\/p>\n
Speaking of McGee, what can you tease about how he\u2019s going to react to whatever\u2019s going on? Because we know Mateo is caught up in something because he says to Torres, they could be watching.<\/strong><\/p>\nYes, yes. He\u2019s going to be all kinds of conflicted. Obviously, as a law enforcement officer, if crimes are being committed, that\u2019s going to pull him in one direction. But if it involves family, it\u2019s going to pull him in another direction. He\u2019s experienced this before when his sister came to his door with her hands covered in blood and said, \u201cTim, I think I killed somebody,\u201d and he was caught between a rock and hard place, the rock being Gibbs and the law and the hard place being his loyalty to his sister. And there\u2019s a moment where, and I think what can be illuminating for the present is a line that McGee says to Gibbs when Gibbs comes at him and it\u2019s like, \u201cWhat are you doing, man?\u201d The idea that anyone on the show would try and pull a fast one on Gibbs. Gibbs was a father figure to them. He never would do that. And McGee\u2019s standing there with Gibbs and McGee says to him, I don\u2019t remember the exact line, but it\u2019s something like, \u201cYou are my mentor, my teacher, my father figure, you\u2019re everything to me, but she\u2019s my sister.\u201d And I think Gibbs can understand that and I think everyone can understand that. And I think when push comes to shove, that\u2019s where McGee\u2019s loyalties are going to lead him, but it\u2019s not going to be an easy \u2014 It\u2019ll be an easy decision, but not an easy experience.<\/p>\n
Talk about bringing Rocky back in such a substantial way and in this way.<\/strong><\/p>\nWhen Rocky and I had the conversation about what was going to happen in the 500th, one of the first things I said to him was, \u201cLook, on this show, dead never means gone.\u201d And with a character like that and an actor like that, you can\u2019t let him go. He\u2019s too good. You got to use him. So we always knew if something was going to happen and things will continue to happen, I\u2019m sure, in that regard. But like most things, you don\u2019t want to force it like, \u201cHey, let\u2019s do a Vance flashback episode.\u201d The story sort of dictated that. We knew we wanted to bring Kayla in, and it just seemed like we never got a chance to see her with her dad. It just seemed like that was the thing that you should do. That\u2019s what you wanted to see. If we\u2019re going to bring Kayla in, and that seemed like something we had to do, it was obligatory even, then it felt obligatory to see her with her father.<\/p>\n
LaRoche has designs on the director chair; we got that very pointed look at it. But you\u2019ve left that chair vacant of a permanent replacement thus far. Why only bring in these interim directors that we haven\u2019t even seen for the rest of this season?<\/strong><\/p>\nThe answer to that is going to be a testament to Rocky Carroll. When the show began, we had a director, but he was not a regular fixture. The structure of the show didn\u2019t really support that in a way. Sure, if you want to do the cliche thing where the boss is telling you, \u201cSpeed up the case,\u201d or \u201cSecNav\u2019s leaning down my neck,\u201d or things like that. But we skipped by those sort of classic, and by classic, I don\u2019t mean great, types of storytelling. And I think that partially is responsible for some of the early success of NCIS<\/em> is we just didn\u2019t do things the regular way. So the role of the director was not necessarily supposed to be all there all the time. And we trialed Lauren Holly<\/a> for a while and she was fantastic, but it was just very difficult to write that character in, which is why we wrote her off partially.<\/p>\nAnd then when Rocky came on, he was not hired for that many episodes. We were going to use a director sporadically and sparingly when we felt like we needed it here and there. And what ended up happening was Rocky was just such a fantastic actor and such a great guy to work with that he just ended up being in the show more and more. Even though structurally, it still sometimes was difficult to find a novel and interesting place for a supervisor to show up because that\u2019s really what he was. He was a supervisor. He wasn\u2019t really doing the work. And sometimes we did episodes that were all about him and those were some of our best episodes. But as a supervisor character, that\u2019s not necessarily great storytelling.<\/p>\n
\nCBS<\/p>\n<\/div>\n
So, when Rocky exited the show, we weren\u2019t feeling like, my gosh, we need to get a manager back in here. We need to get that supervisor character back in here. Unless there\u2019s a strong reason to do it, again, we\u2019ve been letting the stories dictate where we go with the director chair. And other than playing the loss of Vance, and that sort of has given us some things to play about, OK, what\u2019s going to happen now? The idea that we all landed on and gravitated to is we want to address that because we have to, and then we want to get back to telling stories with our core four and Kasie [Diona Reasonover<\/a>] and Jimmy Palmer down in autopsy and telling the best stories we can there. And that usually doesn\u2019t mean involving a supervisor.<\/p>\nSo then you\u2019re just going to feel it out going forward? You don\u2019t have plans for anyone to come in? Or is that going to be the story with LaRoche? Does he fill that spot?<\/strong><\/p>\nWe\u2019ll see where that goes. We\u2019ve sort of played this game with him a little more than \u2014\u00a0 yeah, he\u2019s fantastic too, by the way \u2014 we\u2019d initially intended. And I think that\u2019s also because when we\u2019re looking for stories to tell, he\u2019s great. We are on hiatus now, so there hasn\u2019t been a lot of deep thinking. But I think we\u2019re going to play out his story probably once and for all in regards to his designs, and then we\u2019ll see where that lands us. The designs are what is the best story. That\u2019s really the design. I know that may feel like a punt, but I think one of the other secrets to our success is we don\u2019t make these grand decisions upfront and then try and service them because sometimes, and oftentimes, and most of the times, things just want to go a certain way. And if you\u2019ve already decided you\u2019re going to do this, it handcuffs you and then you can\u2019t go off in interesting and surprising ways.<\/p>\n
You played a bit with Torres and Knight and what could be between them this season, but then there still is Knight and Palmer. What can you say about those dynamics going forward?<\/strong><\/p>\nIt\u2019s interesting because I really do try to not read anything about it because it gets in my head, but I have, unfortunately, and gets in all of our heads. And there are very strong feelings about Palmer and Knight of the kind of, can\u2019t they just get together because they\u2019re such a happy couple? But that\u2019s limiting storytelling. Having two people as a couple together is then there\u2019s just a couple. There\u2019s nothing to play. There\u2019s nothing to see. There\u2019s nothing to do. We\u2019re a cop show, so they\u2019re not at home having the regular squabbles that you\u2019d see if you lived together and were at home. They\u2019re in an office. And how many fights or dramatic moments can they have, especially when they\u2019re both extremely emotionally mature people, especially Jimmy Palmer, I\u2019d say, he\u2019s been through a marriage and has children.<\/p>\n
Torres, not so much. And so it has shaken things up. And again, that\u2019s something where we\u2019re just going to see where it goes. If we do go in a shocking way, the only thing I\u2019d say is sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants and right or wrong or fair or not, it\u2019s not a question of what you want, it\u2019s how it plays out, what you do with it. And I think we\u2019re still feeling it out in the way that these people in the real world of NCIS, the fake real world of NCIS, I think they\u2019re all still feeling it out. They\u2019re all feeling out how they feel, and we as the writers are right along with them.<\/p>\n
The world of NCIS<\/em> is expanding. You have New York<\/em> coming, and in show-wise, their locations are pretty close to each other. So it feels like crossovers should be more possible, but then I know it\u2019s going to depend on in real world where you\u2019re actually filming. So what can you say about any crossovers next season? Have you started those conversations?<\/strong><\/p>\nI have not had those conversations. There\u2019s been a consistent desire for crossover episodes since the dawn of time. So, I can\u2019t imagine suddenly this is the year they say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s not do a crossover episode.\u201d I don\u2019t know. Something tells me they\u2019re going to be shooting in New York, and that\u2019s just going to make it a lot more difficult because then you have to lose actors to travel them and it becomes very difficult. If they were in LA shooting, we could do a lot of crossovers because, can we borrow them for the afternoon? But when you got to fly someone out and fly someone in, you\u2019ve lost two days and that doesn\u2019t even count the shooting days that they\u2019re going to be there for.<\/p>\n
![\"Brian](\"https:\/\/www.tvinsider.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/04\/ncis-2317-palmer-sam-parker-855x570.jpg\")
<\/p>\nRobert Voets\/CBS<\/p>\n<\/div>\n
What else can you say about Season 24? And of course, I have to ask about seeing Mark Harmon<\/a> considering you brought up Gibbs in the penultimate episode<\/a> in a major way.<\/strong><\/p>\n
- \n
- The\u00a0NCIS<\/em> Season 23 finale ended on a major cliffhanger.<\/li>\n
- Showrunner Steven D. Binder breaks that down, discusses the Knight-Torres-Palmer situation, and more.<\/li>\n<\/ul><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n
Hold on, is\u00a0NCIS<\/a><\/em> about to kill off another major character while everyone\u2019s still mourning the loss of Director Vance<\/a> (Rocky Carroll<\/a>)? The Season 23 finale ends with a moment that leaves one of the team\u2019s fate uncertain. TV Insider spoke with showrunner Steven D. Binder<\/a> about that, the major return in the episode, and more. Warning: Spoilers for the\u00a0NCIS<\/em> Season 23 finale ahead!<\/strong><\/p>\n
The team works with Kayla Vance (Naomi Grace<\/a>) after a bombing in an alley links back to one in a caf\u00e9 from a year earlier. And in doing so, we get flashbacks to when she spoke with her father about her concerns about the first one (she\u2019d been right outside) as well as the side work she started doing away from NCIS about it. She couldn\u2019t do both, he\u2019d told her \u2026 and what she didn\u2019t know, until near the end of the finale in the present day, was he\u2019d left her an envelope to allow her to make the call herself about which she\u2019d choose.<\/p>\n
Meanwhile, the thorn in everyone\u2019s side, LaRoche (Seamus Dever<\/a>), returns and investigates Kayla for the money used to fund her side project\u00a0and<\/em> accuses Vance of possibly being dirty. Parker (Gary Cole<\/a>) does convince him to drop that, but LaRoche says his job is to restore confidence in the agency by publicly clearing Vance\u2019s name of any wrongdoing \u2026 and he seems to have designs on the director\u2019s chair. Uh-oh!<\/p>\n
But the real shocker comes in the final scene. McGee\u2019s teen son Mateo (Patrick Keleher<\/a>) tours NCIS but seemingly decides the cyber internship (and NCIS) isn\u2019t for him \u2026 only for Palmer (Brian Dietzen<\/a>) to note to Torres (Wilmer Valderrama<\/a>) that he apparently used a workstation to fill out an application. When Torres looks into it, he can\u2019t find an application. Torres confronts Mateo in an alley, and the teen insists he drop it, revealing he\u2019s armed. \u201cThey could be watching,\u201d he says. The finale ends with a gunshot ringing out, but it\u2019s unclear who fired.<\/p>\n
Showrunner Steven D. Binder breaks down the Season 23 finale and rules out one outcome of that cliffhanger when the series returns in the fall.<\/p>\n
Why have it be Torres who become suspicious of Mateo?<\/strong><\/p>\n
Steven D. Binder:<\/strong> I think that will become a little more clear when you see where the story goes, but in terms of that\u2019s working backwards to a conclusion, but I think it\u2019s, who do we have on the table? It\u2019s going to be one of the three people that McGee works directly with. It\u2019s going to be Knight [Katrina Law<\/a>], Torres, or Parker. And it just seemed like he\u2019d be watching his buddy a little more closely maybe than some of the other characters. They each have some other things going on, especially given the penultimate episode<\/a>. Parker\u2019s got some things on his mind perhaps. And he\u2019s just the one who\u2019s more contemporary to being a father of roughly the same age as McGee. So I think he\u2019s just watching a little more closely. Also, he\u2019s one of the more suspicious guys. He was undercover. It would be in his nature to look sideways at anybody, including family.<\/p>\n
There\u2019s one gunshot, but we don\u2019t know who took it. Can you confirm if someone\u2019s dead or injured or if someone was hit?<\/strong><\/p>\n
Someone was hit. I can confirm that. I sort of had my fill this season, all of us, of killing people. So I can rule that out. And also, there\u2019s not a lot of fun there. When someone\u2019s dead, they\u2019re dead. It\u2019s much more interesting \u2014 I\u2019ll think back to when Gibbs shot McGee. It\u2019s much more fun when someone\u2019s alive and been shot than when they\u2019re dead. And by fun, I mean, interesting.<\/p>\n
Speaking of McGee, what can you tease about how he\u2019s going to react to whatever\u2019s going on? Because we know Mateo is caught up in something because he says to Torres, they could be watching.<\/strong><\/p>\n
Yes, yes. He\u2019s going to be all kinds of conflicted. Obviously, as a law enforcement officer, if crimes are being committed, that\u2019s going to pull him in one direction. But if it involves family, it\u2019s going to pull him in another direction. He\u2019s experienced this before when his sister came to his door with her hands covered in blood and said, \u201cTim, I think I killed somebody,\u201d and he was caught between a rock and hard place, the rock being Gibbs and the law and the hard place being his loyalty to his sister. And there\u2019s a moment where, and I think what can be illuminating for the present is a line that McGee says to Gibbs when Gibbs comes at him and it\u2019s like, \u201cWhat are you doing, man?\u201d The idea that anyone on the show would try and pull a fast one on Gibbs. Gibbs was a father figure to them. He never would do that. And McGee\u2019s standing there with Gibbs and McGee says to him, I don\u2019t remember the exact line, but it\u2019s something like, \u201cYou are my mentor, my teacher, my father figure, you\u2019re everything to me, but she\u2019s my sister.\u201d And I think Gibbs can understand that and I think everyone can understand that. And I think when push comes to shove, that\u2019s where McGee\u2019s loyalties are going to lead him, but it\u2019s not going to be an easy \u2014 It\u2019ll be an easy decision, but not an easy experience.<\/p>\n
Talk about bringing Rocky back in such a substantial way and in this way.<\/strong><\/p>\n
When Rocky and I had the conversation about what was going to happen in the 500th, one of the first things I said to him was, \u201cLook, on this show, dead never means gone.\u201d And with a character like that and an actor like that, you can\u2019t let him go. He\u2019s too good. You got to use him. So we always knew if something was going to happen and things will continue to happen, I\u2019m sure, in that regard. But like most things, you don\u2019t want to force it like, \u201cHey, let\u2019s do a Vance flashback episode.\u201d The story sort of dictated that. We knew we wanted to bring Kayla in, and it just seemed like we never got a chance to see her with her dad. It just seemed like that was the thing that you should do. That\u2019s what you wanted to see. If we\u2019re going to bring Kayla in, and that seemed like something we had to do, it was obligatory even, then it felt obligatory to see her with her father.<\/p>\n
LaRoche has designs on the director chair; we got that very pointed look at it. But you\u2019ve left that chair vacant of a permanent replacement thus far. Why only bring in these interim directors that we haven\u2019t even seen for the rest of this season?<\/strong><\/p>\n
The answer to that is going to be a testament to Rocky Carroll. When the show began, we had a director, but he was not a regular fixture. The structure of the show didn\u2019t really support that in a way. Sure, if you want to do the cliche thing where the boss is telling you, \u201cSpeed up the case,\u201d or \u201cSecNav\u2019s leaning down my neck,\u201d or things like that. But we skipped by those sort of classic, and by classic, I don\u2019t mean great, types of storytelling. And I think that partially is responsible for some of the early success of NCIS<\/em> is we just didn\u2019t do things the regular way. So the role of the director was not necessarily supposed to be all there all the time. And we trialed Lauren Holly<\/a> for a while and she was fantastic, but it was just very difficult to write that character in, which is why we wrote her off partially.<\/p>\n
And then when Rocky came on, he was not hired for that many episodes. We were going to use a director sporadically and sparingly when we felt like we needed it here and there. And what ended up happening was Rocky was just such a fantastic actor and such a great guy to work with that he just ended up being in the show more and more. Even though structurally, it still sometimes was difficult to find a novel and interesting place for a supervisor to show up because that\u2019s really what he was. He was a supervisor. He wasn\u2019t really doing the work. And sometimes we did episodes that were all about him and those were some of our best episodes. But as a supervisor character, that\u2019s not necessarily great storytelling.<\/p>\n
\nCBS<\/p>\n<\/div>\n
So, when Rocky exited the show, we weren\u2019t feeling like, my gosh, we need to get a manager back in here. We need to get that supervisor character back in here. Unless there\u2019s a strong reason to do it, again, we\u2019ve been letting the stories dictate where we go with the director chair. And other than playing the loss of Vance, and that sort of has given us some things to play about, OK, what\u2019s going to happen now? The idea that we all landed on and gravitated to is we want to address that because we have to, and then we want to get back to telling stories with our core four and Kasie [Diona Reasonover<\/a>] and Jimmy Palmer down in autopsy and telling the best stories we can there. And that usually doesn\u2019t mean involving a supervisor.<\/p>\n
So then you\u2019re just going to feel it out going forward? You don\u2019t have plans for anyone to come in? Or is that going to be the story with LaRoche? Does he fill that spot?<\/strong><\/p>\n
We\u2019ll see where that goes. We\u2019ve sort of played this game with him a little more than \u2014\u00a0 yeah, he\u2019s fantastic too, by the way \u2014 we\u2019d initially intended. And I think that\u2019s also because when we\u2019re looking for stories to tell, he\u2019s great. We are on hiatus now, so there hasn\u2019t been a lot of deep thinking. But I think we\u2019re going to play out his story probably once and for all in regards to his designs, and then we\u2019ll see where that lands us. The designs are what is the best story. That\u2019s really the design. I know that may feel like a punt, but I think one of the other secrets to our success is we don\u2019t make these grand decisions upfront and then try and service them because sometimes, and oftentimes, and most of the times, things just want to go a certain way. And if you\u2019ve already decided you\u2019re going to do this, it handcuffs you and then you can\u2019t go off in interesting and surprising ways.<\/p>\n
You played a bit with Torres and Knight and what could be between them this season, but then there still is Knight and Palmer. What can you say about those dynamics going forward?<\/strong><\/p>\n
It\u2019s interesting because I really do try to not read anything about it because it gets in my head, but I have, unfortunately, and gets in all of our heads. And there are very strong feelings about Palmer and Knight of the kind of, can\u2019t they just get together because they\u2019re such a happy couple? But that\u2019s limiting storytelling. Having two people as a couple together is then there\u2019s just a couple. There\u2019s nothing to play. There\u2019s nothing to see. There\u2019s nothing to do. We\u2019re a cop show, so they\u2019re not at home having the regular squabbles that you\u2019d see if you lived together and were at home. They\u2019re in an office. And how many fights or dramatic moments can they have, especially when they\u2019re both extremely emotionally mature people, especially Jimmy Palmer, I\u2019d say, he\u2019s been through a marriage and has children.<\/p>\n
Torres, not so much. And so it has shaken things up. And again, that\u2019s something where we\u2019re just going to see where it goes. If we do go in a shocking way, the only thing I\u2019d say is sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants and right or wrong or fair or not, it\u2019s not a question of what you want, it\u2019s how it plays out, what you do with it. And I think we\u2019re still feeling it out in the way that these people in the real world of NCIS, the fake real world of NCIS, I think they\u2019re all still feeling it out. They\u2019re all feeling out how they feel, and we as the writers are right along with them.<\/p>\n
The world of NCIS<\/em> is expanding. You have New York<\/em> coming, and in show-wise, their locations are pretty close to each other. So it feels like crossovers should be more possible, but then I know it\u2019s going to depend on in real world where you\u2019re actually filming. So what can you say about any crossovers next season? Have you started those conversations?<\/strong><\/p>\n
I have not had those conversations. There\u2019s been a consistent desire for crossover episodes since the dawn of time. So, I can\u2019t imagine suddenly this is the year they say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s not do a crossover episode.\u201d I don\u2019t know. Something tells me they\u2019re going to be shooting in New York, and that\u2019s just going to make it a lot more difficult because then you have to lose actors to travel them and it becomes very difficult. If they were in LA shooting, we could do a lot of crossovers because, can we borrow them for the afternoon? But when you got to fly someone out and fly someone in, you\u2019ve lost two days and that doesn\u2019t even count the shooting days that they\u2019re going to be there for.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\nRobert Voets\/CBS<\/p>\n<\/div>\n
What else can you say about Season 24? And of course, I have to ask about seeing Mark Harmon<\/a> considering you brought up Gibbs in the penultimate episode<\/a> in a major way.<\/strong><\/p>\n
- Showrunner Steven D. Binder breaks that down, discusses the Knight-Torres-Palmer situation, and more.<\/li>\n<\/ul><\/div>\n<\/p><\/div>\n