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Rachel Feltman:<\/b> For Scientific American<\/i>\u2019s Science Quickly,<\/i> I\u2019m Rachel Feltman.<\/p>\n
Go into any grocery store these days and you\u2019ll see plenty of food-related fads, both new and old, being used to hawk products: You\u2019ve got your paleo ketchups, gut-microbe-friendly sodas, and, my personal favorite, plant-based chips that are none-too-subtly billed as mimicking the singular taste of a Cool Ranch Dorito. But one of today\u2019s biggest nutritional buzzwords is actually kind of basic: protein.<\/p>\n
Influencers say we\u2019re not getting enough, food marketers want us to know they\u2019ve got it, and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., seems to think more meat could do us all some good. But what does the science actually say about this buzzy macronutrient?<\/p>\n
If you’re enjoying this article, consider supporting our award-winning journalism by subscribing<\/a>. By purchasing a subscription you are helping to ensure the future of impactful stories about the discoveries and ideas shaping our world today.<\/p>\n Here to tell us more is science journalist Bethany Brookshire, the author of a recent story <\/a>on SciAm<\/i> about this wave of protein enthusiasm.<\/p>\n Bethany, thanks so much for coming on to chat with us today.<\/p>\n Bethany Brookshire:<\/b> Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> So we\u2019re here to talk about protein.<\/p>\n Brookshire: <\/b>[Laughs.]<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> Why, why are we talking about protein so much? Why is it everywhere? Are we getting enough? What\u2019s happening? Could you just start us with, with your\u2014a brief overview of your thoughts? [Laughs.]<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> [Laughs.] Having, having just written a carefully reported piece on protein, when people are, like, asking me, \u201cWhat\u2019s up with protein?,\u201d my honest answer is, \u201cI wish I knew.\u201d I really do.<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>[Laughs.]<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> There is a recent\u2014and when I say recent, past 10, 15 years, it\u2019s kind of been building\u2014this idea that we need to get more protein …<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> That we\u2019re not getting enough protein, that somehow we desperately need this and we could be our absolute best selves if we just hit the meat harder. And [Laughs] …<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> Oh, what a phrase, but please do go on. [Laughs.]<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> [Laughs.] I do my best.<\/p>\n And it\u2019s interesting because it has been embraced particularly by the \u201cMake America Healthy Again\u201d movement. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., who is the current secretary for health and human services, when he unveiled his new upside-down food pyramid declared that \u201cwe are ending the war on protein.\u201d<\/p>\n I am unsure of the genesis or reality of that particular conflict, don\u2019t think anybody ever thought we were in a war on protein. [Laughs.] But there is kind of an idea in some wellness spaces that one of the things we all could stand to get more of is protein, and that\u2019s kind of been growing over the past 10 to 15 years.<\/p>\n It started, as many of these wellness trends start, in the fitness and bodybuilding spaces …<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>Mm.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> And has now become much more widespread, to the point that you can go to a coffee shop and get protein-boosted cold foam on top of your latte, which is also protein-boosted.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> Right, well, and I\u2019m glad you mention the idea of, like, protein-boosted products because, you know, one of the results of this obsession with protein is a lot of, for lack of a better term, sort of proteinwashing and a lot of focus on putting as impressive a number of protein per serving as you can on the front of a bag of something. What has your reporting told you about sort of how customers are responding to that?<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> I have not actually looked specifically into how customers<\/i> respond to it. I can tell you, I did run a taste test of a certain very popular toaster pastry in its regular and protein-boosted forms amongst an n<\/i> of 12 of various ages, genders, and etcetera. I can tell you that the vast majority\u2014and when I say vast majority, I mean 11 out of my n<\/i> of 12\u2014preferred the regular pastry to the protein-boosted pastry. The one person who did prefer the protein-boosted pastry now is in possession of the rest of them, so. [Laughs.]<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> [Laughs.]<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> It definitely can create\u2014it depends on the product. Most of the products that I\u2019ve come across are boosted with whey protein, which is derived from milk, and that can sometimes mess with the texture of something.<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> And so often people find that different texture to be a little unusual or not what they\u2019re expecting. And so that\u2019s often what people react to when they\u2019re reacting to a protein boost in a product.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> And so what does the data actually tell us about how much protein we need and how much people are getting, on average?<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> So this is interesting. [Laughs.] This is one of the more interesting things that I\u2019ve come across kind of in my reporting. There is significant discussion among experts, among groups, as to how much protein we do need per day and whether or not we are getting enough of it based on those numbers. So if you’re willing to nerd out with me for a hot second.<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>[Laughs.]Of course.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> Okay. So we can start with what the base absolute basement amount of protein. Because let’s be clear, there are three, four basic nutrients that you need. Okay? It is protein, carbohydrates, fat and water, whether water counts as a nutrient. Eh. Anyway, you need those four things to make the chemicals in your cells and allow you to function, right?<\/p>\n You can get by<\/i> without any carbs in your diet. You can. Your body can convert the rest of that. You can get by on a very, very low-fat diet. Your body can make up that difference. You cannot get by with no protein in your diet. You do need some protein in your diet. In particular, we utilize 20 amino acids in our daily cellular lives. Nine of those are essential amino acids, which means that we cannot physically make them ourselves\u2014we have to get them from our diet. So we do need some protein.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> As one of my favorite short stories puts it, we are made of meat.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> We are absolutely made of meat. [Laughs.] If by \u201cmeat,\u201d you mean protein, then yes, we are made of meat. We are nothing but meat sacks. And so we do require protein in our diets.<\/p>\n How much of that is actually somewhat up for debate. So they did some studies in the 1980s, basically, where they took people and they gave them varying amounts of protein and then they saw how much of it they peed out. Because the idea is that your body seeks equilibrium. It will take that protein and use as much as it needs and then just excrete the rest\u2014like, bye.<\/p>\n And based on those studies the estimated average requirement, the EAR, of the absolute basement protein you need to remain in homeostasis is roughly 0.6 grams per kilogram per day, okay?<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>Okay.<\/p>\n Brookshire: <\/b>So then when they were coming up with recommended daily allowances in the U.S., they were like, \u201cWe just wanna make sure everybody gets over 0.6, right, so we\u2019re gonna say 0.8,\u201d right? You get 0.8, you are definitely safe.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> Good buffer, yeah.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> Right. Now people are questioning that, and they\u2019re questioning it because that is the maintenance, right? That\u2019s how much you get to maintain what you currently have. Is that the goal, right?<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n Brookshire: <\/b>Are we …<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> A lot of us are trying to get shredded …<\/p>\n Brookshire: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>Every day.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> Are we trying to get up on the gains? And if that\u2019s the case, you need more protein.<\/p>\n Also, there are some groups that do not get enough. To be clear there is no evidence that the population at large, your average human being, is not getting enough protein. We\u2019re getting plenty. Most people are getting more [Laughs], up to [about] 50 percent more protein, than they actually need on a daily basis.<\/p>\n The groups that nutritionists are concerned about are, in particular, the elderly. So people who are elderly can often suffer from something called sarcopenia, aka muscle wasting. And they need more protein, but<\/i> those people also have very strong long-term reductions in appetite, right? So they\u2019re just not eating a lot of calories. And if you\u2019re not eating a lot of calories, the proportion of protein in your diet needs to be higher.<\/p>\n Another group that some of the scientists I spoke to were slightly concerned about is people on GLP-1 drugs. Again, because you get huge reductions in appetite\u2014really, really drastic ones. And so if you\u2019re eating so little, the proportion of protein that you need really goes up in the diet, particularly with GLP-1s because we know that GLP-1s can cause muscle loss because there\u2019s just so much weight loss going on.<\/p>\n So in those groups there are nutritionists saying we really need to pump some protein and make sure that people are keeping an eye on how much protein they\u2019re getting. But on average, your average person, who is probably not meeting their daily gym requirements [Laughs] or whatever, is getting enough protein. They\u2019re getting plenty. It\u2019s fine. [Laughs.] Relax. We\u2019re okay.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> [Laughs.] And are experts worried about any consequences that we might face writ large if people are focusing too much on getting as much protein as possible?<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> Yes. [Laughs.]<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>[Laughs.]<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> And there\u2019s several forms that concern takes. So in some populations\u2014this is not every population; in fact this is kind of rare\u2014but if you are someone who has kind of weak kidneys, getting really high levels of protein can be an issue because as I mentioned, when you have enough protein in your diet, you pee out the rest. Pee is processed through your kidneys, and if your kidneys are not up to snuff, the high-protein diet can become a problem. That\u2019s pretty rare. Most people do not have that problem.<\/p>\n Another area that people are slightly concerned about is if you are, for example, \u201cprotein maxxing,\u201d [Laughs] as the youths say, \u201cprotein maxxing\u201d; you\u2019re not \u201cfiber maxxing\u201d or …<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> Mm, and you gotta fiber max.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> Or\u2014yeah\u2014or \u201cfruit maxxing\u201d or \u201cvegetable maxxing\u201d [Laughs] or any of the other things. The thing I talked to several nutritionists about that they\u2019re kind of concerned about is that the modern approach to nutrition, in many ways, has come down to macros, right? Get in your protein, get in your carbs, get in your fat, get in the micronutrients that you need\u2014you gotta get all your x<\/i>\u2019s and y<\/i>\u2019s and z<\/i>\u2019s in a row and make your spreadsheet. And food is so much more than that. [Laughs.] And a diet is so much more than that writ large. And so they\u2019re concerned that people are kind of relying heavily on, like, supplementing specific …<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>Sure.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> You know, nutrients, as opposed to eating just, like, some freaking food, man. Just, just eat food. [Laughs.] And so that\u2019s another concern.<\/p>\n And the third concern that several nutritionists actually expressed to me: when people work on getting more protein, the vast majority of the time they get that protein from animal sources. Often, it\u2019s whey protein, is, is often the protein that\u2019s supplemented in ultra-processed foods. People will eat a lot of meat. And that\u2019s, as we know, not great for the environment, right?<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>Right.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> Those proteins come from animals, which eat many foods and also burp many burps and fart many farts, and it\u2019s not excellent for climate change. And so there are some people who are kind of concerned that as we work so hard to max our protein, that can be kind of a problem in terms of our impacts on the planet.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> So given that it\u2019s not as simple as, \u201cOh, actually, everyone\u2019s already eating too much protein,\u201d or \u201cYeah, definitely, everyone needs to eat more protein,\u201d what kind of research, what kind of data do we need to get to actually find the right nutritional solution for everybody?<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> So as I mentioned, you know, your estimated average requirement from studies in the \u201980s is 0.8 grams per kilogram per day. I think it\u2019d be kind of cool to actually, like, redo those studies and look at people at varying levels of activity, at varying ages, you know, things like that, and see what\u2019s going on there\u2014how much protein do<\/i> we need?<\/p>\n And of course, there are many nutritionists who want to either raise the recommended daily allowance of protein to encourage people to get more protein, or in many cases they say we need it to be on kind of a spectrum; we need there to be some wiggle room. So most people who are relatively young, relatively healthy, like, 0.8 grams per kilogram to 1 gram per kilogram per day, that\u2019s fine. That\u2019ll do you. But as you get older, you may want to bump that up to 1.2 or even 1.5. If you\u2019re someone who is spending a lot of time in the gym, really interested in building and maintaining muscle, you may actually want to increase those numbers.<\/p>\n So there\u2019s kind of a move not necessarily toward increasing recommended daily allowances for everyone<\/i> but acknowledging that we all have different nutritional needs and kind of thinking it\u2014of it in terms of more what do you as a person with your lifestyle need, as opposed to what we all need to not die, which is what the recommended daily allowance is actually about: What do you need to not die? [Laughs.]<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>[Laughs.]<\/p>\n Brookshire: <\/b>And so there are nutritionists who say maybe we should increase it, and then there are others who are saying we probably don\u2019t need to do that, so there\u2019s debate within the community. I was very pleased to find out that it\u2019s not, like, angry debate. [Laughs.]<\/p>\n Feltman: <\/b>[Laughs.]<\/p>\n Brookshire: <\/b>They were all very, very polite about it, which is quite nice. [Laughs.]<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> The protein wars are actually very civil, so [Laughs], as it turns out.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> They\u2019re more, you know, comfortable protein discussions, probably over protein-boosted beer.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> [Laughs.] Wow.<\/p>\n Thank you so much for coming on to talk through this with us.<\/p>\n Brookshire:<\/b> Thank you so much for having me.<\/p>\n Feltman:<\/b> That\u2019s all for today\u2019s episode. Don\u2019t forget to check out ScientificAmerican.com<\/a> for more of Bethany\u2019s reporting on protein and other topics. Tune in on Friday for a fascinating and important conversation about what our guest calls the Black womb crisis.<\/p>\n Science Quickly <\/i>is produced by me, Rachel Feltman, along with Fonda Mwangi, Sushmita Pathak and Jeff DelViscio. This episode was edited by Alex Sugiura. Shayna Posses and Aaron Shattuck fact-check our show. Our theme music was composed by Dominic Smith. Subscribe to Scientific American<\/i> for more up-to-date and in-depth science news.<\/p>\n For Scientific American,<\/i> this is Rachel Feltman. See you next time!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n